Understanding Coercive Control and How to Break Free

Most people think abuse means being hit. But what if some of the most damaging abuse leaves no visible bruises at all?

In this deep-dive episode, licensed trauma therapist and domestic abuse expert Tabitha Westbrook breaks down what coercive control REALLY is and why terms like "domestic violence" or "narcissistic abuse" don't even come close to describing it.

In this episode you'll learn:
• Why coercive control is about taking someone's personhood, not just hurting their body
• The subtle tactics coercive controllers use
• Why ALL coercive control is physical abuse (yes, really)
• How to recognize if YOU are in a coercively controlling relationship
• What to do if you think YOU might be the coercive controller and that change IS possible

Whether it's a marriage, a friendship, or even church, coercive control shows up in more places than we realize. This episode will give you language, clarity, and a path forward.

🕊️ Men of Peace Cohort applications now open → https://thejourneyandtheprocess.com/upcoming-events-groups/men-of-peace/
📞 Called to Peace Ministries → https://calledtopeace.org/
📚 Eyes Wide Open by Dr. Deborah Wingfield → https://amzn.to/4uei4rV

📲 Rate & review on your favorite podcast platform — it helps others find us!

At The Journey and The Process we strive to help you heal. Our therapists are trauma specialists who use evidence-based tools like EMDR, Brainspotting, Somatic Experiencing, and Internal Family Systems to help you heal - mind, soul, and body. Reach out today to start your healing journey. https://thejourneyandtheprocess.com/

 This book is for every Christian woman who has been harmed sexually, whether that happened in childhood, adulthood, or even within your coercive controlling marriage, and you're longing to feel safe in your body again. We talk about the hard stuff, shame, desire, faith, and even questions like, is this sin or is this trauma?

You don't have to untangle it alone. Body & Soul, Healed & Whole is for you. Get a copy here today - https://a.co/d/8Jo3Z4V

👍 If this episode resonated with you, please like, subscribe, and share to help others who need this information!

📖 Order Body & Soul, Healed & Whole: An Invitational Guide to Healthy Sexuality After Trauma, Abuse, and Coercive Control

Wanna support Hey Tabi? Buy me a coffee here - https://buymeacoffee.com/heytabi

📩 Connect with Tabitha & The Journey and The Process:
💻 Tabitha's Website - www.tabithawestbrook.com
📲 Tabitha's Instagram - www.instagram.com/tabithathecounselor
🎙️ Podcast Homepage - https://heytabi.buzzsprout.com

💻 The Journey & The Process Website - www.thejourneyandtheprocess.com

Subscribe to our YouTube Channel & watch podcast episodes there

🚨 Disclaimer: This podcast is not therapy and is intended for educational purposes only. If you're in crisis or need therapy, please reach out to a licensed mental health professional.

Need to know how to find a great therapist? Read this blog post here.

Transcript

Coercive Control Defined As A Pattern

Grooming Charm And The Captivity Funnel

Gaslighting And Spiritual Abuse Tactics

Sexual Coercion And Real Consent

Monitoring Money And Isolation Patterns

Why Coercive Control Becomes Physical

Questions To Spot Control In Your Life

What To Do If You’re Being Controlled

What If You’re The Controller

Change Repentance And Men Of Peace

SPEAKER_00 0:41

So many people still have the idea that abuse is punching someone, hitting someone, throwing them down the stairs, things like that. And it is that, but it's so much more. So we're gonna talk today specifically about coercive control. And I'm gonna take a deep dive deeper than we've ever gone on this podcast. I can't wait for you to hear more. Welcome to Hey Tabby, the podcast where we talk about the hard things out loud with our actual lips. We'll cover all kinds of topics across the mental health spectrum, including how it intersects with the Christian faith. Nothing is off limits here, and we are not take two verses and call me in the morning. I'm Tabitha Westbrook, and I'm a licensed trauma therapist, but I'm not your trauma therapist. I'm an expert in domestic abuse and coercive control, and how complex trauma impacts our health and well-being. Our focus here is knowledge and healing. Trauma doesn't have to eat your lunch forever. There is hope. Now, let's get going. Welcome to this week's episode of Hey Tabby. So I want to talk a little bit more about what coercive control really is, how it shows up in relationships, and what to do if you are like, oh, I think I might be a coercive controller. So I really want to take that deep dive into all of these things. So here's the thing abuse in general isn't just about a bad relationship. Abuse actually isn't a relationship problem. This is from my friend Leslie Vernick. Abuse causes relationship problems. So it is going to cause problems in the relationship when we are in that coercively controlling and destructive space. So coercive control is a pattern of behavior. So any abusive behavior is a pattern of power and control. And this is a really important thing to remember because it's not just a one-off, right? We can all be jerks from time to time. Let's just be real. There are days when we are not at our best, we speak harshly to someone that we care about, maybe even say something we terribly regret. And so that happens, and we're like, oh my gosh, what have I done? We typically, when we are not coercive controllers, we feel sadness, we feel guilt, we go to make repair, we own our own behavior. We say, I'm so sorry. I really did say some hurtful things in that argument. And I don't know what got into me. It was just really bad. And I'm so incredibly sorry. Those are things that are one-off. They are not the sum total of our character. We don't see them over and over again. They just happened in a moment of weakness or sinfulness or brokenness or activation or whatever. And they are not continuous. We are also taking responsibility. I did the thing. I was unkind. I feel that sense of guilt. And guilt as an emotion isn't a bad thing. I personally do not ascribe to negative or positive emotions. I think all emotions have been given by God and they are really helpful in understanding what is going on and making sense of the world that we live in. So when I am talking about emotions, guilt can be really helpful. If I feel really bad about something that I did, I'm going to apologize. I'm going to make amends. I am going to do something that is going to help repair the relationship when it has been broken. And that is a beautiful function of guilt. Does it feel pleasant? No. No, guilt does not feel pleasant. It is not comfortable. I might be ashamed of myself for the behavior and say, that was so out of character. That did not meet my value system. I was really outside of my value system there. So feeling ashamed, that would be a healthy shame, isn't bad. It gets into toxicity when it's false guilt and it's not something that we actually did wrong, but yet we feel bad. It's toxic shame when we believe that we are bad and we aren't just ashamed of what we did, but we're ashamed of who we are, those types of things. And we can do a much deeper dive on guilt and shame in a future episode. But the point here is that we don't have a pattern of power and control. It's truly a one-off that happens every now and again when we are just not our best self. And that's very important to understand as we really take that deep dive. Now, where coercive control is different is it is a pattern. It is a power and control pattern over another. And the point of coercive control is that it takes the personhood of the other party. And why do I like the term coercive control so much better than abuse? Well, I think it's more descriptive. Honestly, things like narcissistic abuse, which if you listen to this podcast, you know I do not like as a term, and things like just domestic violence, domestic abuse, they're just pale in comparison to what coercive control really is. And so I don't think they're super good descriptors. Coercive control is a pattern of power and control over another where you're taking their personhood. Now, look, there are far more formal definitions by Dr. Emma Katz and Evan Stark and other people and thinkers in this space. But I want to give us something really simple that we can grab onto and go, this makes sense. So I don't need all the academic words. I just want to talk more about how it shows up. And what it is is that pattern where it's chipping away at the victim's personhood. So there is a person with clear power and control, not always clear to the outside, right? But clear in the relationship. We'll talk about that in a minute. But it is, I am going to take your personhood. I am going to use you, other person, for my pleasure, either to feel powerful, to get something that I want, to meet whatever need I think I have, all of those things and who you are, what your preferences are, do not matter. In fact, I'd really like all of your preferences to serve me. And anything that's good about you, I want to consume for myself. And this is what makes it really tricky for people who are very smart, very capable, who are generally really well adjusted in this world at first, until they're in these relationships, to say, like, how did I get here? And it's because if you think about it in the terms of like predator and prey, let's say that the coercive controller is like a lion. They're going to stalk you. They're going to groom you, they're going to make you feel like they're safe and cute and full of cuddles and all of those things. And they're going to say, I see this good thing in you, or these good qualities in you. Maybe you're a hard worker, you're loyal, you're kind. If you haven't watched the video, nice girls end up in trunks. Maybe you're just nice and capitulating because that's how you've been socialized. And they say, I am going to go and take that for myself. Now it's not overt like that all the time. Sometimes it is, sometimes they're very overt. It's always intentional. It may not always be overt, but it is the mentality that a coercive controller has with someone. And that's a really important thing to remember. So they are taking your personhood. It's kind of like a soul-sucking vampire, essentially. So they want to take your life force and use it for their good and to glorify themselves. Now that might sound, if we're looking at biblical language, a lot like a certain former archangel, Satan, right? In the book of Isaiah, it talks about him being thrown out of heaven along with a third of the heavenly hosts that followed him. And the reason for that was he said, I will sit on the throne and be like the most high. And what he was saying in that moment is, I will be God. And I don't know if that makes you shudder. It certainly makes me shudder because that's a heck of a thing to say if you believe in God. That is a heck of a thing to say if you have seen God Himself face to face. I can't even imagine. And yet he did because he thought, I will be God. I I am worthy of being God, and all of you should bow to me. And that's the heart of a coercive controller right there. And again, it's not always overt. It is always intentional. It is always to order the world in the way that they want the world to be ordered. But it is not always overt, like, hi, I'm going to come steal your soul now. Hope you're fine with that. How about marrying me? That's not how it works. It is so much more subtle. And that's what makes it tricky. And also why coercive control is a much better definition. When we think of abuse, I would wager to bet that most people here thought physical, sexual, physical assaults, things of that nature. However, it is so much more than that because again, you don't have to touch someone to take their personhood. Think about anybody that you have been around that is just like a soul-sucking individual. It could be a teacher that you had while you were in school. It could be a friend that just you can't do anything good. They don't have anything nice to say. Back, as you're listening to the show like, I'm actually not sure why I'm still friends with that person. I am super confused here. All of those things are the subtleties that come with coercive control. And that's what makes it really tricky because again, with the gaslighting, I mean, gaslighting by its definition, not by the pop culture definition, is really bending reality to say that what you see and feel is not accurate, that that is an inaccurate thing, it's not really happening that way, all that stuff. And that is the thing where it's like, you know, the person is convincing. So Dr. Deborah Wingfield has this great book called Eyes Wide Open. I really recommend it. And she talks about the different tactics that abusers use. And she has what she calls the four C's. And one of them is convincing. So there's cunning, convincing, cunning, and charming. I think those are the four. I will double check and put the accurate ones in the show notes, but convincing and charming are two for sure. And cunning is definitely in there. So they're intentional and they're very charming. So oftentimes they're going to come across as I am here for you. I am doing this for you because I love you. And yet they are doing none of those things. They are doing it to weave a web to drag you into. She has a great illustration of a captivity funnel as well, where the control starts off as this wide space. And so there's a lot fewer boundaries there. But as you get into the relationship, that funnel narrows until suddenly you're trapped. And you feel very much like a prisoner of war because, in very many ways, psychologically speaking, that's exactly what is happening for you. And they're bending your reality and saying, no, these things aren't true. No, I never said that. That is not how that argument went. You are misremembering. And they're so convincing that you're like, I mean, maybe worse yet, a lot use spiritual abuse. And if you haven't heard me say it before, I'll say it here. Spiritual abuse is taking someone's good and right devotion to God and using it as a weapon against them. And when they take someone who genuinely cares about following God and says, this is what it looks like in our relationship for you to follow God. And again, they're convincing, they're cunning, they're charming, they're all of these things, then you are going to go, oh yeah. Maybe they've been disseminary, maybe they're the pastor of your church. Maybe they're saying, I have studied the word of God and I am telling you this is how it's to be interpreted. And if you have been taught that you trust the pastor no matter what, and you trust leaders no matter what, and don't, you know, speak against the Lord's anointed and some of the things that we hear from the pulpit, then we might be like, Well, yeah, I mean, I have to. They're they're the Lord's anointed, they've been given special blessing, they are a prophet, they are whatever. And so we're much more inclined to say, I'm gonna go with that because I don't want to go against God. And so what these people are doing is speaking as if they are God. And again, who does that sound like? All I can say is big yikes. I would not want to be them at the end of days if they have not repented. And so when we look at these things and we're like, okay, what else might be happening that isn't just being thrown downstairs? Now, again, all of that is part of coercive control at times. So there is a very physical manifestation, an overt physicality of coercive control that can be beatings and sexual assaults and all of these things. But again, a lot of times it's even more subtle, including in the sexual realm. So I'm just gonna give a quick little trigger warning here. I am about to talk more in depth about sexual abuse and assault and within the confines of marriage. So if that's a hard space for you, please take care of yourself. You can always come back to this podcast. If you've ever heard me talk about these things before, you know, you are the only you that you have, and I want you to take care of you. So, with that said, we're gonna dive into the concept here of what it looks like to not be so overt in the bedroom. It's that, come on, honey, you know I need this. I will die if I don't. I'm in pain because I am aroused and cannot have a release, whatever it is that they're saying. And they over and over, even if you said no or not tonight, or could we later, or whatever, or it's not a good time, they badger you until you say yes. That's not consent. Assent and consent are not the same thing. Consent is a freely given, enthusiastic yes without any of this other stuff. Now, if you're gonna listen to this and go, well, aren't there times I should make a sacrifice? Maybe I'm not gonna say there aren't. However, it's going to be mutual, it's going to be done with care and kindness. You will not be mistreated or berated or belittled because you said no. There are very valid reasons to not engage in sexual activity. And I have heard the gamut of them just being in the role that I have. So when someone pushes and pushes and pushes, whether it's implicit or explicit, then that yes, even if you finally give in, is not a true yes. That leaves one word for what it is when you are forced into sexual activity that you have not consented to, and that is rape. And yes, you can do that inside of marriage. And we can take a deeper dive on that at some point if you need to. But I talk about it with great specificity in my book, Body and Soul, Healed and Whole. So there's just no other way to look at it, right? But coercive control there might feel like doing your wifely duties, or it might feel like, you know, submitting to what you you're supposed to as a woman, or, you know, submitting to a spouse when you don't want to, or giving a sacrifice or what have you. There's all of those things that play into it. And so it doesn't necessarily feel like, oh, I'm being coercively controlled. But you were not in that moment in control of your yes. You were not giving that freely given consent. And the way that I say it, and I'm gonna say it a little spicy, is if it's not a hell yes, then it is a hell no. And that is not an in-between. There's no in-between there. Other things that you might see that are not overtly physical, and I'm gonna talk about the overtly physical. You might know where I'm going if you've listened to another episode here of Hey Tabby, but we'll get there in just a minute. But some common patterns are monitoring your phone, location, your finances. So again, these things are not overtly abusive per se. Please note the air quotes if you're watching, but they are coercively controlling and they are problematic. So it's one thing to say, hey, we've all got find our phone on or find my friends or whatever, or life 360, just to make sure folks are safe, but you're not like checking it all the time. For some people, they are in fact checking it all the time, and that's a bit of a pickle. And they're saying, Well, you spent an extra dollar at the grocery store, and what are you doing? And you're not allowed to do that, or you're not allowed to buy things for yourself, or you're not allowed to buy food that's on a particular diet plan for you, even though that diet plan has been given to you by a doctor or what have you. Those are all kinds of things that go into monitoring. And again, what it's doing is taking away your personhood, your autonomy, your sense of agency, right? God never ever tells us that we're supposed to give up our sense of agency. We're supposed to submit to him as the Lord, but he always has our good at heart, right? So he's not trying to take from us, he's always giving to us. In fact, he's given us the greatest gift in his son. So we know that he's not a God of oppression. He says that repeatedly in the Bible, and we see that over and over. And he's not a God that doesn't care. It talks about him being a great high priest because he has felt all the things we have and he has deep compassion for our tears. So someone exerting all of that control is unhealthy. Now, if you're a parent and you're like, I mean, but I need to know where my 17-year-old is with my car. This is not the same thing. Your spouse is not your parent. And even Uber high control with your kids is not helpful. It really isn't. It's just going to push them away. And we're seeing a lot now around estrangement. Many times because there was a high control environment in the home. Now, not always. Again, I'm giving some generalities here. Some of these topics really do need even a deeper dive, including estrangement, because there's a lot going on there. But I am seeing some healthy estrangement where, you know, in distancing in relationships where they've had a high control space as a kid, and that even as an adult, the parents are still trying to exert high control over, you know, jobs and marriages and you know what they are and aren't allowed to do and things like that. And that's not ever going to serve you well. And ultimately, we want to have our kids have a healthy concept of God and self and be able to make their own decisions and be critical thinkers. Isolation, that this again can be subtle or overt. In my situation with my ex-husband, one of the things that he would do would be, Oh, I'm really tired. I don't want to go around people. I really just want you here with me. All of that sounded great, but it was again that same pattern. And it was with other patterns of power and control in our relationship. And so that was an isolating thing where I wasn't allowed to be with friends and that sort of thing. And near the end of the relationship, he accused me of all sorts of things with friends that were ridiculous. But I wasn't really allowed to have anyone but him in my life. And so you'll see that. And that's true when you are in a high control religious space as well. That you will say, no one else has the keys to the kingdom. No one else teaches the way we do. Verse by verse is the only way, you know, and you can't find Jesus any other way, which is ridiculous if you actually read the Bible. God, no, there's one way to heaven, right? It's through Jesus. However, there are a million different ways to talk to him, and it isn't the only teaching by Jesus taught in parables that now have become the verse by verse, but we won't get into that. But you know, these things where it is this is the only way, and no other way works, no other people understand Jesus, no other people are Christian, like that's ridiculous. And so we just need to not go there, but we need to realize that that is what is happening and and see it for what it is. Like, hey, wait, that that's confusing. And also that creates dependency. And depending on, you know, someone for your spirituality, your well-being, all of these things. And if you're also being financially controlled, say in a coercively controlling marriage, then you don't have access to things like food, clothing, shelter without this other person saying yes. And that's a really difficult place to be. And again, these are not overtly physical, but they are abusive. These are coercively controlling behaviors. And again, we're looking at that pattern of power and control across the constellation of the relationship. There's also emotional punishment. So if you do not perform in the way that the coercive controller wants you to, and that bar is always changing, so it's real hard to find it, then there's going to be some sort of hell to pay because of it. So you might not get the food that you need, you might not be able to access clothing. You may be forced to stand outside on the porch while they take a nap. I've actually heard that before. You may get the silent treatment, and it's not just I'm not talking to you because I'm upset right now. It's icing you out. It's that horrible feeling of a break in relationship. And when you're dependent on this person and this relationship is really important, and you're trying to be a good spouse or a good congregant or whatever it is, then that feels terrible. We were created for belonging, and that kind of pushing you away is tantamount to just stabbing you in the heart. And that is such an important thing. And then, of course, there's the rewriting reality. You know, it's not always loud. Sometimes I might raise my voice a little, but like you, you always say I'm yelling, but I'm not really yelling. And nobody else ever thinks it's yelling. And you're like, wait, what? What's happening here? Maybe it isn't yelling. And if they're convincing enough, again, let's go back to our four C's from Dr. Wingfield. It's like, oh my gosh, what is happening here? Now, I'm gonna just take this pause and remind everybody of something. If you haven't heard this before, if this is the first time you have ever joined Hey Tabby and have not listened to any of my other podcasts, I want to make sure that you understand this. There is an entire podcast on this. My premise is that all abuse, all coercive control is physical abuse. Why is that? Well, unless you can take your brain out of your skull and stick it in a jar, it is Is A, a body part, and B, it is dumping out all kinds of neurochemicals. And we know from all of the neuroscience on chronic stress, which coercively controlling behavior in environments are chronic stress. We're dumping all of these things into our system and it's causing inflammatory responses, which lead to things like autoimmune disorders, cancers, obesity, all kinds of things. And so my premise is because of the physiological impacts of the emotional things that are happening, all abuse is physical abuse. And again, this takes us out of the realm of domestic violence. Because when we just think, oh, hit, punch, kick, slap, whatever, then we are missing that subtle neurochemical, neurobiological impact that is so deeply harmful. In fact, maybe even more harmful on occasion than being physically assaulted in the more overt ways because it goes on longer. It's less detectable. And so when we normalize these patterns over time, we may not even know that we are being pickled in our own juices, if you will. So here are some ways to know if your relationship has some coercive controlling elements to it. This is not an exhaustive list by any means. So I would encourage you to listen to some of the other episodes of Hey Tabby, do some more research. I'll have some resources in the show notes about relationships and how to know. And you can do a little bit more of a deep dive for yourself. So a few questions. Do you feel like you have to manage your emotions to stay safe? Are you allowed to feel anything? Are you allowed to have any kind of disagreement with your partner, your pastor, the elders in your church? Sol in the blank. It might even be all of these, and you're like, oh goodness, I'm in a very high control space with a whole lot of people. And that happens. Do you feel like you second guess your memory or perception? Maybe it didn't happen that way. Maybe I'm just crazy. Now look, I'm not saying we shouldn't evaluate ourselves. Of course we should, but it is not always a not trust or get kind of moment. If it's happening again, over and over, patterns of power and control, then we definitely want to pay attention. Has your world become smaller in some ways, whether that is isolation, whether that is finances, whether that is your ability to work, fill in the blank? Have you had a narrowing of your world and the things that you're allowed to do? And if you came out of a high control environment as a child and married into high control, you might be like, I don't know, this is all I know. Totally get that. But notice that. Do you feel like you're losing yourself? Do you feel like, man, when I first got married, I was this person? Now, look, we all grow and change through marriage, through life, hopefully, even in friendships. And we're all growing together. And sometimes that creates friction and conflict, but it's not losing yourself. It's not that same feeling of I don't know who I am anymore, or I used to be able to speak up and now I can't. Those are very different things. Are you more anxious about the reactions than you are over making sure your own needs are met? And that's a thing. It's like, I'd rather go without dinner than upset my spouse because if I upset my spouse, then I'm just gonna have an upset stomach and dinner's not gonna be pleasant anyway. That's a thing. That's a that's a whole thing. And so I would pay attention to those things, be curious. So if you've listened to this and you're like, uh, oh gosh, I think I might be in a coercively controlling relationship. What do I do? Well, first of all, don't panic. That that might be hard to do. You don't have to do anything in this moment, in this, in this very single moment. You don't have to do anything. There are places I want you to explore. I want you to get curious. I also want you to think of safety. We know that these relationships can become very dangerous, especially when you start asking questions. And so we want to be very careful with this. So I would encourage you to get more informed, reach out to an organization like Called to Peace Ministries that offers advocacy and information and do a deeper dive, figure out whether or not this is part of your story, and you know, and take your time so that you're also staying safe. So be curious and think about your own safety. And I can't tell you how many people have said, oh, my spouse would never physically assault me, physically do this. If they've been coercively controlling, they absolutely would. Long time ago, a advocate from an organization in the state that I lived in said to me, There's a fine line between words and actions. And that's true. And when you start setting boundaries and asking questions, that line can get blurred really, really quickly. And you can be in a more overt physical danger than you already are. So we want to be safe. We want to be careful. If you're curious and you're like, I don't know, therapy also is a great help in this regard. Finding someone who understands coercive control and can help you is really important. And then understanding that, you know, leaving is a heavy duty decision. I'm not going to tell you to leave. No good therapist is going to tell you to leave or to stay. They're going to help you discern what is best for you. So if you're in these places, my first advice is get curious and start taking a look at the data, figuring out what your relationship is telling you, and also just being mindful of safety. Now I want to talk to the people who are listening who are like, what if I'm the coercive controller? Oh goodness. Well, first of all, I'm glad you're having that thought. Let me just be real. I'm super glad you're having that thought. That's an important thought to have. And it's something that you should absolutely explore. Now, if it's your spouse going, I think you're a coercive controller, and you have all the power and control. I mean, okay, you might be. So, like, let's think about it this way. Are you monitoring or restricting your partner? Do you have a high level of control over what your partner does or what your congregation does, or how you expect them to act? And there's no room for deviation on that. Those are things that you might go, maybe I am in a high controlling position here. Do you use guilt, fear, or withdrawal to get your partner or your congregation or the people that you're friends with to do things? And let's be real, man. Like, this is a hard question sometime to ask because we don't want to admit when we're doing that. But if you are, then you probably want to check in. Do you struggle if your partner has a difference of opinion? Do you struggle if someone disagrees with you? Are you like, uh, absolutely not? Right? Look, we all want to be right. Let's be real. But I have enough maturity to go, maybe I need to think about something. Maybe I need to reevaluate. If that's not a position you find yourself in, you might want to ask some questions. You know, honestly, you might say, Well, I've had a traumatic childhood and I just like my world ordered. Trauma doesn't cause abuse. There's lots of people who have been traumatized and they are not coercive controllers. So there are things that you might need to deal with from your past or your present or an addiction or what have you, but that also doesn't give you the excuse to harm and control another human being. That's just not what God would have you do. If you find out that you're like, gosh, I think I might be the coercive controller. I think maybe there are things that I have believed or have done that would say that to me. And here is what I would like to invite you to. First of all, change is possible, but it requires ownership and real work. Like there's there's just no two ways about it. It's going to be a stretching, it's going to be painful. It is what it is. Radical honesty without defensiveness to the best of your ability is really important. Take a look at yourself and go, what am I doing? What am I doing? Really look at what do I need to do for myself to be different, to be the kind of person that I believe that I want to be, that God wants me to be. That is not marriage counseling. Again, abuse is not a marriage problem. It causes them. You need to do individual work. As a therapist, I will not see a couple that has coercive control as part of their dynamic. It is not safe for people. And it's not going to help you. It's not going to help you change. And so you need to do the real work regardless of what happens to your relationship simply because it's right and good to do, even though it will be hard. And don't put a timeline on it because it takes longer than you would like it to. This is how it always works for everybody. And so you definitely need to do that work and prioritize that above doing anything else. And that actually is a service to your spouse or to your congregation. And then you really want to find a practitioner that knows what they're doing. For example, we have an upcoming Men of Peace cohort that we will start here. We have applications open now. I will have that in the show notes. So if you are someone, a man who is like, I think you're reading my mail, what am I going to do about that? That is not how I'd ever want to see myself. I don't like the term abusive. I don't want to talk about any of this, but I feel really compelled that like that might be my story, or your spouse is looking at you going, that's your story. Then I would invite you to apply for our Men of Peace cohort. It is a 26-week program that will start in August. And it is well worth your time if you want to say, I have become a man of peace. So we'll have that linked in the description of this podcast, and you can go take a look, get more information, and hopefully sign up. And you really need to have good accountability. We don't just change overnight. My pastor says it this way: we don't drift toward holiness. We, in fact, drift usually really far off course when we're not paying attention and being intentional. And so I really want to invite you, do this hard work. It will benefit you. It will benefit the people around you so greatly. Even though in the first moments it's going to feel a little uncomfortable and kind of painful. And that is a sign of repentance, right? Is turning and walking away from the things that we have done and are doing that are sinful. So if anything in here made you go, oh, that really helps me understand a little bit more about coercive control, then that's the reaction I hope you're having. And I hope that if you are in a coercively controlling relationship, whether that is with a partner, whether that is with family members, whether that is in your church, that you will start getting curious and learning how to bring more personal safety back in for you. God has never asked us to be unsafe in that way. He is not a fan of repression. It is not ungodly to ask questions. And if you realize I am a coercive controller, whether you are a pastor, an elder, whether you are a spouse, then this is something I just want to invite you to change. I want to invite you to repentance. Again, our information on our Men of Peace program will be in the description. I strongly encourage you to prayerfully consider joining us. You don't have to stay in this place. It's not getting you the love and connection that you that you really truly desire. It is such a false connection when you have to force it. And I would invite you to do something a little bit different in that regard. So I hope that you take this bold step. I hope that you decide to join our Men of Peace program. And if you're a pastor, I doubly hope that you join us because there is more than just your spouse that you have influence over. And I would rather see at the end of days that God says you are a sheep, not a goat. And I don't mean greatest of all time, that you know, depart from me. I never knew you. I do not want that for you. I want you to truly be part of the kingdom and to walk in this world as a godly man. So thank you so much for spending time with us here on Hey Tabby. If you have any questions about this, drop a note in the comments, shoot an email over to us. I'll have all of our contact information in there. And I'm really glad that you joined us. Please remember all coercive control is physical abuse, because unless you can take your brain out of your head and stick it in a jar, it is, in fact, a body part and it is physically harmful to be in these places. And again, narcissistic abuse and physical abuse and domestic violence and all those things are far too bland to describe the insidious and wicked nature of coercive control. Thanks again for being here. If you found this valuable, please be sure to like and subscribe. Please rate it on your favorite podcast platform. It really does help people to be able to find us so that they can get the information that they need to hopefully take steps toward healing. We will see you again on our next episode of Hey Tabby. Thanks for joining me for today's episode of Hey Tabby. If you're looking for a resource that I mentioned in the show and you want to check out the show notes, head on over to tabithawestbrook.com forward slash hey tabby. That's H-E-Y-T-A-B-I, and you can grab it there. I look forward to seeing you next time.