Stop Setting Yourself on Fire to Keep Others Warm: Prevent Burnout & Break Free From People Pleasing

Get ready for a real and honest conversation with licensed trauma therapist Tabitha Westbrook, as she explores the root causes of people-pleasing and burnout—particularly among trauma survivors. In this episode of Hey Tabi, you’ll learn:

• Why We People-Please: Uncover how past trauma, cultural conditioning, and personal beliefs fuel the urge to put others first.
• The Burnout Connection: Understand how chronic self-sacrifice leads to physical, emotional, and spiritual exhaustion.
• Practical Boundaries & Self-Care: Discover tips for setting healthy limits, nurturing your well-being, and avoiding compassion fatigue.
• Faith & Mental Health: Hear how Christian faith intersects with mental health and learn empowering strategies to live more authentically.

Tune in to discover how you can break free from people-pleasing habits, prevent burnout, and regain balance in your life.

00:00 Introduction to Hey Tabby Podcast
00:35 Personal Journey: From People Pleaser to Assertive
03:43 Understanding Burnout and Its Effects
06:03 Strategies to Prevent Burnout and Build Boundaries
21:59 The Importance of Self-Care and Rest
29:24 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Keywords: People Pleasing, Burnout Prevention, Trauma Survivor, Mental Health, Self-Care, Boundaries, Christian Faith, Emotional Exhaustion, Personal Well-Being, Hey Tabi Podcast

#PeoplePleasing #BurnoutPrevention #SelfCare #HeyTabi #TraumaSurvivors #MentalHealth

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Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Hey Tabby Podcast
• 0:35 Personal Journey: From People Pleaser to Assertive
• 3:43 Understanding Burnout and Its Effects
• 6:03 Strategies to Prevent Burnout and Build Boundaries
• 21:59 The Importance of Self-Care and Rest
• 29:24 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Welcome to Hey Tabi, the podcast where we talk about the hard things out loud with our actual lips. We'll cover all kinds of topics across the mental health spectrum, including how it intersects with the Christian faith. Nothing is off limits here and we are not take two verses and call me in the morning.

I'm Tabitha Westbrook and I'm a licensed trauma therapist, but I'm not your trauma therapist. I'm an expert in domestic abuse and coercive control and how complex trauma impacts our health and wellbeing. Our focus here is knowledge and healing. Trauma doesn't have to eat your lunch forever. There is hope.

Now let's get going.

Hey there and welcome back to the Hey Tabi podcast. I'm your host Tabitha Westbrook and I'm really excited that you are joining me here today. So gosh, we are going to talk about a topic. I think that is super, super important and one that probably doesn't really get enough attention. discussion, to be honest.

Um, one of the things that I like to tell people is that I am a recovering people pleaser. I know that the people who have known me in, I don't know, last decade or so would say, Oh, my gosh, you are not a people pleaser at all. But, oh, my goodness. Um, yes, actually used to be so. Way back in the day when I was just a wee lass, a young, a young Tabi, if you will, I worked in clinical research.

So I worked in clinical quality assurance. And what that is, is basically telling people everything that they have ever done wrong in their clinical trial. For a living. So I would go into places and do audits and tell them this is where you missed the mark. You can imagine the popularity that I enjoyed in that role.

I was not a good day when I came into your office, generally speaking, um, or your clinic and. You know, it was a fun job. I really enjoyed what I did. I enjoyed the process of it. I enjoyed the thinking that it required, but also you couldn't be a people pleaser because you did have to say hard things all the time.

And I remember. In one of my early, early audits coming back and like crying to my boss because I had upset the particular doctor that I was working with and he had called me unethical, which is like pretty much the worst thing anybody could have said to me at that time. And I was just like, Oh, no. And I really had to sit with the fact that they were just mad because I had told them something that they didn't want to hear, I had said it well, I was gracious and kind and all of those things, but at the end of the day, it was what it was. And that was really the beginning for me of a journey of looking at why do I feel like I have to make everybody happy all the time?

And really had to start exploring that. Initially from the. You know, professional perspective, but then I really had to kind of, you know, lean into the personal perspective on it because we bring ourselves everywhere that we go. So One of the things I say to my clients very often is. You need to stop setting yourself on fire to keep other people warm.

And you may have seen a meme that also says that, and it's such a true statement, right? Oftentimes, particularly trauma survivors will take it on the chin and take on too much and do all the things to make everyone else happy and to keep someone else warm. So that leads to burnout every single time.

Right. It's not sustainable for forever before your own body and soul start showing signs of wear and tear. And some of us are resilient and we can keep going like that for a while, but eventually it's going to catch up. So in today's podcast, we're going to talk about what burnout is and how to understand it, kind of dig into the root of our people pleasing tendencies.

Like why do we do that? And then talk about some practical strategies to prevent it and also to build healthier boundaries. So what exactly is burnout? I think that we know it when we feel it in our bodies. Very often we know that, you know, gosh, I feel tired and fatigued and all of those things, but you know, it's really hallmarked by emotional exhaustion, depersonalization, which means like, I feel like I'm not even a person like I'm outside of myself.

We actually accomplish less, which is interesting because we're working and working and working and working and working and doing all of these things. But where you're Getting less and less done. And it's because our brains aren't functioning at the way that they should, right? They're, they're like crispy, right?

Have we ever had those days? I know I've had those days where your brain is just super crispy and you're like, I don't know that I can have a cognitive thought to save my life right now to be honest. There is a huge amount of physical and emotional toll that burnout takes on you. So you might find yourself sleeping more or sleeping less even, which seems counterintuitive, but our bodies do some strange things when they're under great stress.

You may find that you're eating more than you would like, or less than you would like, or is healthy for you. And your body starts to show those signs of chronic stress where, you know, maybe you're experiencing, you know, some heart palpitations or a higher blood pressure or things of that nature. And so your body is starting to say, Hey, hey, hey, we need to slow down, things are not good.

And, you know, We also can get into places where we get taken advantage of, because we say yes all the time. Particularly when we are in abusive situations, we have learned that we cannot use the word no, because to disagree with an abuser, it doesn't go well, generally speaking. And so we learn to say, okay, I'll do that, no matter what tool it takes on you.

But when you start to recover and you're out of that situation, you may just have this normative, normal neural pathway thing of like, you know, Of course I'll say yes, right? Or you're trying to rebuild community and so you're, you know, way more inclined to press in and say, sure, I'll do that. When really the right answer is no in that moment, and we'll, we'll talk more about that in a few minutes.

We also feel like we are responsible for other people's happiness and we are responsible to people, right. To be good humans and all of that, but I'm not responsible for your happiness. Now, does that mean I should just go around being, you know, hateful moron? Absolutely not. Don't be mean. Don't be horrible.

But what I want to say is if I have to say no to something and you're sad about it, that's okay. You know, it's okay that you're sad. And actually that's not a bad thing at all. And you know, We can get through sadness because we don't always get what we want. Right. I think there was a Rolling Stones song to that effect essentially.

Um, and so if you are singing that in your head with me now, welcome, because I'm also singing it in my head, but it's a true statement. We can't always get what we want. Oftentimes people pleasing is a trap that we fall into. We trip and fall into it essentially. So the roots are frequently in trauma. And social societal expectations, right?

We're very often, particularly as ladies, um, have like socialized into like, you need to do this thing, you need to do it this way. It needs to look like this and that sort of things. And also we don't want to be rejected, but let's be real, right? We want people to care about us. We are built for love. We are built for connection.

However those things are not predicated on what we do, right? We are lovable. We are connected because not because I do a thing for you. And so, honestly, I know that in certain relationships where I'm really close friends with someone, if I were to never do another nice thing for them, now, not, not, not be a mean person or anything, but if I never did another nice thing, I still would be equally lovable because I'm me.

They don't love me because of what I do for them. They love me because of who I am, but when I've grown up in, an if then, if you do this, then I will give you love, you know, paradigm, then I am going to believe that that's how I get love. That's how I get care and kindness. And as a kid, you know, or in my last relationship, that was probably true.

I got some level of connection by, you know, burning myself out and being. Um, you know, a human candle, essentially, um, for someone else's pleasure. However, in a healed place, that isn't the way it works. It's not the way it's supposed to work. That's not what healthy looks like. So learning that and going, Oh man, like I'm really pulled into this place because I, you know, really care about this person in this relationship.

And so I want it to be okay. And I'm afraid based on my own history that if I don't do this, then it won't be starting to understand that is really helpful. Also, we can be very much. Um, Particularly in the Christian spaces. I'll just be honest, habituated to put our own needs aside. Now there is value in being a appropriately selfless individual and giving and being kind.

There's value in that. However, it should come from a place where your oxygen mask is already on, right? So the guilt, so many of us who have grown up in the church or have been part of the feel is, you know, when we prioritize our own needs. is actually a false guilt. So what false guilt is, is when we feel guilty for something that we didn't do wrong.

Right. So we're just like taking on guilt that we don't actually own. And that is not where we're supposed to be. And God doesn't tell us to do that at all, but we have been told, and there are books out there that I think are well meaning about not being selfish. But there is a difference between selfish and self care.

You know, if I haven't slept in a couple of days, cause maybe I wasn't feeling well, or I was up with a sick kiddo and you asked me to come cut your grass in a hundred degree heat in the middle of summer. And I say, no, I'm not being selfish. You know, I'm taking care of myself. My body is not going to tolerate that well, and it's not going to go well.

Now I can, maybe if I really feel like I want to help in some way, Find someone else or pay a landscaping service stuff, help you out or something, but my no is actually really healthy there. And if I feel sad or guilty about it afterwards, haven't done anything wrong and I definitely want to check in.

But if I don't prioritize myself and I don't have anything to give, right, we can't pour from an empty cup, essentially. Also, we sometimes put our worth and value into other people's approval, and this is so true of someone who has had developmental or childhood trauma, right? Developmental trauma means the trauma that we had as kids when we were growing up, and it is while we were developing, right?

Our brain is developing, our sense of self is developing, our way of seeing the world is developing. And when we have caregivers or other people in our lives that, you know, who's approval we legitimately need because we do not have autonomy and they only love us or give us love when we do what they want, you know, then we absolutely may put our self-worth in someone else's approval.

And man, that is a tricky place to be because it sets us up to be people pleasers. Because if I say no, and then you're mad, then you don't approve of me and I don't get love. Right. Now, as adults, most of us can go, that doesn't, that feels like manipulation, right? But when you are a trauma survivor or you have been in an abusive relationship, not how it feels.

You feel like I am a terrible person. They may even say to you, you are a terrible person for not saying yes to me. And if our approval is based on whether or not somebody else is happy with us, we are a hundred percent going to fall into that. We're going to be like, Oh no. Um, and it really does end up creating a cycle where we put ourselves on the back burner in not good ways.

Right. This is again, the difference between like being appropriately giving and, you know, and it's ultimately self harm to put ourselves on that back burner in that way. I will never forget a therapist looking at me. I did not know how burned out I was. I had no idea because I am a trauma survivor. I am extremely good at survival.

I am extremely good at pushing through hard things and just going, all right, let's buckle down. Here we go. Because that was when I was a kid, what I had to do as a young adult in an abusive marriage, what I had to do. Um, But I never learned that there was value in caring for me. I really did believe what I had been taught in church of like, just pour yourself out to the last drop that adage, leave it all on the field, you know, and there is goodness in working hard, but not goodness in not caring for yourself in that.

And so I was really putting myself on the back burner. I was not engaging in good self care. And this particular therapist looked at me and said, you have to get yourself off the back burner. Like you need to prioritize yourself and I just remember hearing those words and feeling like what it felt so foreign to me to even like consider that, but I didn't even know because again, this was my normal that I wasn't okay.

I was like, okay, and I ended up like taking that to stock and starting to like deal with my own stuff and like not putting myself on the back burner and realized I was a very crispy critter. I was not okay. I did not know that I wasn't okay. Um, but it was really revelatory for me. And that was a bit of a turning point.

And going, wait a second, how am I living this life? And is it really the way that I need to do it? Is that really God honoring to be honest? And it's not like you setting yourself on fire and to keep other people warm doesn't actually honor God. And I'll just, I'll just say that. And you may have been told differently.

But it's not true. And I think scripture bears that up. So how do we actually stop setting ourselves on fire besides like getting a fire extinguisher? So we're going to get our emotional fire extinguishers out. First of all, you need to know you're putting other people's needs before your own. Now, again, every now and again, that's going to be something that you do, right?

Like if you are tired, but you have to, you know, you, you have a friend that went into labor and needs a ride, you know, to the hospital. And that was something you guys had agreed on. You know, You might just be tired and take your friend to the hospital. Totally appropriate, right? So again, it's learning balance.

There is balance in all things, but you need to start recognizing, what am I actually doing? What is happening here? And Thinking about what am I doing? Am I putting myself on the back burner? Am I setting myself on fire in a way that is ultimately not God honoring, not giving and really ultimately unkind to this other person?

Because when we do things and extend ourselves way beyond where we're supposed to, we end up feeling resentment. And that's not good. You also want to learn what your own priorities are. And if you are an abuse survivor, you may never have gotten to figure out what your priorities are. You're like, I don't know.

It was always somebody else's priority. And that is a. A bit of an exercise at times to figure out when you've never really done that before, or if you've done it before, but you haven't done it in a while, you need to kind of reset. There's this exercise that I learned a long time ago in a business coaching, um, group that I was in that actually sticks with me in a million different ways.

One of those ways is that we did what we call my perfect day. And so it was what kind of day do you really want? What is your heart desire? And so when you go through a perfect day exercise, you're really kind of putting together the pieces of what do I want my day to look like? Essentially, you're setting your priorities.

What is important to you? And when you put it on paper and you go, Oh, this feels a little out of balance or, Oh, my day does not look like this at all. Then you can really make some changes in it. Uh, back in the eighties, when I grew up, cause your girl is Gen X here. So yes, I am ,in fact, slightly feral. Maybe sometimes more than slightly, but there was always strop, stop, drop and roll, right?

So in case you ever caught fire, which happens stunningly less than I thought it would, you were taught to stop, drop down to the ground and roll around and put the fire out. I don't know if you can have that presence of mind if you're actually on fire, but in this instance, we're going to say, stop, drop and reflect.

So what that means is we're going to stop and go, Hey. What's going on here? Like, I'm noticing my body, I'm noticing some things in here. I'm going to look at, you know, reflect like, how much have I said yes to? Is this a good idea? You know, to do that, to do something else now. And if the answer is no, I'm just not going to do it.

One of the things that I was told a million years ago, and that I tell my clients now is your no makes your yes more meaningful. So if I say no to you. Or I say no to anybody. And then when I do say yes, you know, that I mean it, you know, it's coming from a clean. Yes. I like to call it, which is not a yes under duress.

Yes. Should not be an under duress thing that, you know, that I'm going to come into it without building resentment that I'm going to come into it full of love and full of life and full of light and all of those things, because I'm giving to you from the energy that I have from my actual capacity. I'm not trying to pour out of an empty cup.

And that actually is more meaningful. Like if I say yes to somebody and I'm going to do something, they know that it means something because I will say no if I need to. And also, you know, if you're having a little bit of, you know, a struggle figuring out your priorities, do some journaling to kind of write out, you know, what are my priorities here?

What are the things that are important to me? Where's my, yes. I heard also, um, it was last year on a podcast that, uh, they, The podcaster was saying that they do a yes, no, maybe list for like the upcoming year. I've started doing that in business and it's really helpful in prioritizing there of like, what will I say yes to?

What is a definite no? And what are like, if there's time, a maybe. In our own personal life, we can do that too. What are my yes, no, maybes? Like my yes might be my family. You know, it might be my close friends. If I'm, you know, Like living on my own or whatever it might be, you know, certain activities, church events, volunteer things.

What are my yesses? Do I have too many of them? Like, honestly, and this might be where you phone a friend and go, do I have too many of them? I am  📍 the queen of needing someone else to tell me that I should say no to something because I'll be like, I probably could do it. And if I decide that on a day, I have a lot of energy and I'm like, sure, it'll be fine.

The odds are, I've said yes to too many things and I need someone to help me check in. And truly this is where community can be super helpful. So, you know, is it a yes, that is a helpful yes. And then what are the things that are definite no's? And then what are the things that are like, I don't know, maybe if, if it fits in, in good ways and that, that can be a good way to do that.

Also, what do you believe? Do you believe if I say no to this, then I'm going to be hated. They're not going to love me anymore. I'm selfish. And if those are places that you find yourself having beliefs, then you need to process through them. Why do you believe it? When did you come to believe it? Is it accurate?

Those are things that are important. Who first said it to you? Oh, it's selfish if you don't fill in the blank. You're not loving people. Well, whatever. And those are places that, you know, sometimes we need a little therapeutic help to challenge you for like, that feels very true, but I feel like it might not be true.

Those are things that you might want to just explore a little bit because sometimes, especially again, If we are coming out of abusive situations, if we have had developmental trauma, we believe things that aren't accurate because in order to survive, we had to follow them. And at some point we started drinking that in, believing it for ourselves and then telling ourselves that.

And if we like actually ask God, he's like, I did not say that was not me. So you might need a little bit of support. If you're feeling like, you know, this feels awfully stuck and to just kind of suss it out a little bit to see if it is accurate. Other things that we can do to prevent burnout is setting a good boundary.

A boundary is more of a fence, less of a wall. Sometimes it's a wall, but it can be moved. You know, if you need to, there are times I might open a gate to my yard, if you will, and let you in, um, when normally the fence is closed. So it really is dependent on where you are, who you are, what you need, all of those things, but it is okay to say no.

No, is actually also a complete sentence that you do not actually have to justify either. You say no. And also I don't want to is reasonable, right? So there are going to be times when we just don't want to do something and it is okay. Um, if it would take us over capacity to say no to that. So yeah, that's not something that, um, a lot of us give ourselves freedom to, especially if there has been traumatic experiences.

The other thing is you can say, you know what, let me get back to you on that. And that gives you time. Cause if you feel like. Oh gosh, I'm feeling pressure. That gives you a minute to step away, to take a breath, and to look at it and go, I don't know if this is the right fit for me right now. And, and so that gives you a little bit of time to get out of the emotion of it and to process and to pray, if that's what you need to do to kind of figure something out or to make a plan to be able to say no, if you need to, or to make a plan to be able to say yes.

Right. You may look at it and go, actually, this is something that would be a great. Yes. And I want to do, and it fits my time, my energy, all the things I feel, you know, and feel like are right for me in this moment, then yeah, absolutely. You know, feel like this is where God is calling me. Okay. But if you can't take that step away.

And check in, then it's going to make it harder. So, Hey, let me get back to you on that is always good. You also want to prioritize rest and self care. Self care is not self indulgence. We have got to take care of ourselves and steward what we have. I we're the only us that we have. This is, I say this in advocacy class all the time.

You are the only you that you have. There's no other you. So you do have to take care of you. So explore some restorative practices. What works for you? I always encourage some mindfulness practice of just being able to be in this present moment. We also love a good somatic grounding exercise where we are breathing, you know, where we are noticing our present surroundings, and we are just being in this moment, um, in any way that we can also engaging in good hobbies.

Right? Things can be active and restful at the same time. So for example, I like to hike. I am the slowest hiker on the planet. We will call me team sloth, but this team sloth will go out there on the trail. And it is so restorative and restful to me to be out in the woods and to just walk peacefully and spend time with God.

That is one of the ways that I personally recharge. And it's a very active way of recharging, but to me, it's restful and it is definitely self care. I'm moving my body. I am, you know, emptying my mind of all of the clutter. I am enjoying nature. There is a ton of research about how good nature is for your body and for your mind and for your emotions.

And so I'm out there doing this restorative practice. So I'd encourage you also think about for you, what are the restorative practices that work for you? What does it look like? And then also like addressing that, Oh, but I don't want to be lazy. I cannot tell you how many times in therapy with someone, they have told me that they are lazy and then have given me a list of things that tell me you are not actually lazy.

I can't list the number of times I've said to my own therapist over the years. I think I'm lazy. And what, you know, my therapist will be like, ma'am, what? And so I think we need to redefine what lazy is. And I know that, you know, depending on how you grew up, this is how I grew up. I was repeatedly told he who does not work shall not eat.

And there is value in having a good work ethic, but it can get distorted in some teaching as you can never sit down. And if you're with someone abusive, they are often saying to you, serve me, serve me, serve me, serve me. And you're not allowed to sit down. And if you do sit down, you are told that you're lazy.

So if this is a belief that you're holding, I'm lazy. And you might need to press into that and say, but is that really true, you know, and if you get stuck, you might want to go talk to a therapist, you know, or to a good coach and say, I need to disentangle some things because, you know, on the one hand, I am definitely crispy and burning out.

And I for sure have set myself on fire to keep other people warm. But also, it doesn't vibe with what I now know to be healthy, and I need to help bridge in that gap a little bit. So there's nothing wrong with that. We can also talk to friends about that. So, press in to community and to support wherever you need to.

Good trauma focused therapy can also be helpful. If this is the way that you grew up, and your developmental trauma is really, uh, Pressing into these places where you're like, I do not know how to be different. Like I feel wicked. If I don't just pour myself out to the last drop, then that might be a place where you need to do a little bit of trauma healing.

Cause that could very well be a, you know, something born out of the experiences that you've had is keeping you in an unhealthy place. So all of these things are progress, not. Or you know, perfection. So progress, not perfection. And that's something that I say all of the time in therapy. It's something I remind myself of as a recovering people pleaser that I am on a journey, right?

We're all in a journey. We are all in process. And so knowing that I can refine things little by little. So if you're listening to this and going, Oh, I have to fix a lot. There's a lot. And it's going to remind you, be gentle with you, right? Start with one thing. Where's one place you can say no today, you know, or one thing that you can really get clear on your priority about do that.

That's a great place to start today and you can keep building on that, right? This really does help you show up better for others. I think really understanding that this makes me a better friend, a better sister, a better mother, a better, whatever. You know, a better, anything better worker. It really does make you better everything to have healthy priorities and to really come from a place of good stewardship of you and not burnout that you really do actually show up better for people.

You can also be thankful. And if you're looking at this going, Oh my gosh, this has been my whole life. I've been a people pleaser in every way. You can also like say, Thank goodness today is a different day and I get to walk in a different direction, right? We've been in trauma and had, you know, had long time trauma experiences.

We can look back at the years that we feel like we've lost and there is grief that should happen. You definitely need to enter into lament, but also you can say, and today I know different and I'm not in bondage. Now,

as long as we're breathing, we still got stuff to do. We still have life to live and we can hold on to that while we also grieve the things that were taken and the things that were lost. It's not an either, or it is a both and you can practice as well. So if you're like, I don't know how I can actually say this out loud with my actual lips to somebody, write it down.

There's tools that I have as a therapist that I help clients with when we are in these places and I'm teaching this skill to them, but you can write out. I'm going to say no to this. This is the conversation I'm going to have. You can run it by a friend. You can run it by a therapist. You can run it by a small group.

Hey, can you guys help me refine this? Can I practice with you? Practice saying it out loud with your lips. There is something so powerful. About saying things out loud. I think about the book of Revelation. It's like at the very beginning of Revelation. And I know you're probably like, are you about to reference the book of Revelation?

Yes, I am. Um, but it says it is a blessing to read this out loud. That thing is because God knows that when we comes out our lips and goes into our ears, there's something that happens. Well, I know he knows that because he created us research actually also shows that when we say it out loud with our lips and we can hear it, it does something different in us.

So just saying it out loud. Oh, you know what? Thank you for asking. I can't do that right now. But I love you or, Oh, you know what, I can't do that at this moment, or no, thank you. All of those are fine. You know, like heck no. And running out of the room, probably not the best way to do it. So practicing out like something a little helpful, but definitely like practice saying it out loud.

And again, with role plays can only help. So as we kind of land the plane for today, I just want you to know that you do not have to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm. God didn't ask you to do it. Healthy people don't ask you to do it. Healthy churches. Don't ask you to do that. And you can say no with boundaries and self awareness.

What are your lines? Where do you need to be? What is healthy for you? What is God calling you to? And that is how you start to prioritize. Pleasing other people does not define your worth, no matter what any abusive voice has said to you. You are enough and you are good. The Lord loves you as you are. You don't have to do anything to get worth and value.

You don't have to like, you know, run on that treadmill until you are literally crispy. You are worth. You have worth and value now, and what you do does not define your worth at all. And you can put the fire out by making just one tiny little change. One tiny little change moves you toward a full fire extinguisher kind of moment.

So as we kind of end for today, I would love you to think about what is one thing you can do today that will help you not be on fire. It'll help you not head toward burnout and live a life from a more balanced space. So glad that you were here with me today. I hope that you will think on these things.

If you have any questions, feel free to reach out. Can always catch in the show notes, anything that I may have talked about, and I will see you here again next week. Thank you for listening to Hey Tabi! 

📍 Thanks for joining me for today's episode of Hey Tabi. If you're looking for a resource that I mentioned in the show, and you want to check out the show notes, head on over to Tabitha Westbrook. com forward slash Hey Tabby, that's H E Y T A B I, and you can grab it there. I look forward to seeing you next time.